New Zealand practitioners recently held a “Falun Dafa
Practitioners Validating the Fa” photo exhibit on the campus of Auckland University.
During the exhibition, a reporter of the Craccum magazine interviewed practitioner
Poutama. The reporter asked questions regarding the Chinese Communist Party's
atrocities of harvesting organs from practitioners. The interview was published
in the university's magagzine “Craccum”. Below is the transcript of the interview:
Marie-Claire: Give me some background on yourself, what education have
you had? You were born in Mainland China, yes?
Poutama: Yes, I was born
in China, but came to New Zealand in '72. Since then I completed my education
at Olago, returned to Asia to work for a New Zealand company and returned to New
Zealand in 2002 so the kids could go to uni. Two of them are actually in Auckland
You are very involved in a certain movement. Can you please name this
It's not really a movement, it's a kind of a belief.
It's a practice of a Chinese ancient meditation or cultivation exercise,
called Falun Gong, which has been very seriously, badly, persecuted in China since
July 20, 1999, even though many awards were given by the same government prior
to the ban.
I benefit from the practice of this meditation exercise. For example,
I gave up smoking, I gave up drinking and I am a lot calmer now, the quality of
my life has improved and I see and enjoy these benefits.
However at the same
time in China, where Falun Gong was started, the Chinese government has been very
seriously persecuting all Falun Gong practitioners. They round them up, put them
in prisons, send them to labour camps and what have you since July 20, 1999.
What proof do you have that they round them up and put them in the prison camps
and labour camps?
There are a lot of people who sent revealing articles
with photographs to various websites, so we collect from that. We also have a
lot of people who are sufferers of this persecution – for example, there are at
least over 10 in New Zealand who have filed lawsuits in the high court to sue
the ex-Chinese President.
We have solid proof in documents, and/or from people
who have been persecuted. One couple who recently arrived in New Zealand as refugees,
under the UN, are seeking help from the public to rescue her father.
is he in jail? Is it because he is part of Falun Gong?
because he practises Falun Gong. In China, they (the government) are communist
and by definition, communists don't believe in God or nature. They just like
to enslave everybody, they enslave in order for them to hang on to power, to control
They don't just persecute Falun Gong people, they also persecute
Roman Catholic, Protestant Christian,
Judaism and Islam, what have you – anyone
or group that is not controlled by the China Communist Party (CCP). They persecute
Falun Gong, because they are very jealous of the success of this very ancient
cultivation exercise, which brings people better health in mind and body, a fact
they previously acknowledged.
Why do they persecute those of religion?
Is it because they have control outside of the government or…?
the Chinese Communist Party fears any crowd at all- ignoring say the religion
or other beliefs – commercially, you can't even have something like an Amway
party in China, because then you have household parties, and this kind of thing
is a gathering. So hey, just outlaw them. They don't let you get into a big
crowd in case you come and plot against the government, which is really a dictatorship.
Why is it that more people aren't outspoken about China? What is it,
in your opinion?
Because the system is communist, so when you are born,
you are born in government hospital, you eat government food, you live in the
government housing and drive government cars. Everything belongs to the government.
So what else have you got to do? You have no choice but listen to the government.
Internationally speaking, why isn't the UN doing anything about this?
I think the UN has been trying to do something (see article on the Epoch
Times website, May 6, this year), but it seems that every organisation seems to
be wanting to get benefits through trading, they all want to make more money,
ignoring the bad side-effects of this so-called cheap stuff.
Why are they cheap?
Because a lot of things like pollution are untreated. The chicken will come home
to roost one day over the pollution, which will affect the rest of the world.
Look at China today, look at the water resource and that sort of thing – it is
heavily polluted. The entire world is going to have to pay a heavy price for it.
I principally wanted to talk to you about the organ harvesting, What is
going on in China with regard to the organ harvesting?
had been discovered within the last three months and just recently an independent
investigation by two Canadians, Kilgour and Matas, concluded in their report that
organ harvesting was true. Since then, the Canadians and even the Canadian government
is trying to get another independent report done on top on what has already been
reported. A lot of organ harvesting has been going on in China, prior to these
investigations. It is quite clear from internet websites that there are many Chinese
hospitals offering this kind of organ transplant, which could be done in a specified
time frame, rather short, maybe within a week, ten days, for a price…
a price? So it's very expensive, is it? Say if I wanted to go get a new heart
or something, I'll be paying a lot of money as a Western person? Are they
targeting Western cultures with this scheme as such?
Yeah, I think it's
quite expensive. The BBC once said they were costing £60,000 for a kidney.
It's huge money. Whether it's targeting foreigners or not is unclear,
because within South-east Asia there are a lot of wealthy people who like to get
back to China for a health check, or this kind of visit. In actual fact, it's
huge business for the government, because they are so corrupt, so anyone in the
pipeline, in the system, has got a cut – the only problem now, is who cut who.
Sorry, what do you mean by cut, monetary cut or…?
No, I mean
physically, people are actually, literally, being cut up. So they can harvest
their lung, their kidney…
These people are living or…?
they were cut up, they were living, and alive while they are being cut up. Of
course, after they are cut up, they are dead and thrown into ordinary incinerators.
The whole body is hollow, they hollowed everything out. Worse still, family or
relatives of such victims don't even get to know it.
What do you mean
by hollow everything out?
That means they take out all the organs, like
the stomach, the liver, the bladder, the kidney – anything they can sell, they
will just take it out for sale. And they will just sell them to who will want
to buy them and operate on them in the hospital. These victims are practitioners
of Falun Gong.
Falun Gong people are targeted to the organ donors?
Since 1999, the Chinese government, the ex-president, Jiang Zemin outlawed
Falun Gong practice and the practitioners were rounded up without trial and they
were deemed to be prisoners with death sentences. Because they are such prisoners,
they have no right to anything and, the amazing thing is, not even to their bodies
after death. How we all knew what was going on, that these prisoners were all
ordered to undergo tests to find out their blood type, the condition of their
heart, just to make sure they are healthy, therefore saleable. If they are saleable,
they will be kept in secret. If the lung is damaged, then they can't sell
the lung. He/she will be spared, but tortured to death in other fashions. They
must sell something decent; otherwise there will be no buyer.
Gong, as you said, is working to purify your body and get it going again in a
very healthy manner, they will have beautiful organs for these people to harvest.
I think the Chinese hospitals themselves have been advertising the fact
they are Falun Gong. I think they deliberately choose them because they know Falun
Gong is good for the body, so they know they're all in tip-top condition.
I think they get a higher price.
How large is this Falun Gong movement
Falun Gong – after it was first introduced in 1992 – in the
first five years, it reached 100 million practitioners. Many of them were high-ranking
government or CCP officials.
So potentially the Chinese government could
take these 100 million people and make billions off them?
Yeah, I think
so. Since 1999, they have rounded up people by tens of thousands, if not hundreds
of thousands; people just disappear left, right and centre. I think, it has been
confirmed that this organ-harvesting business was started as early as 2001, or
And you've had contact with these people, as you said there's
ten here, so you indeed do have proof.
I personally believe these claims
that they were persecuted themselves, all their findings. Don't take my word
for it, you can easily find out on the Internet and find it yourself.
would be a good resource for people to look up?
A Canadian website. it
is http://investigation.reclirectme.net. [link no longer active. Visit http://www.david-kilgour.com/2006/Kilgour-Matas-organ-harvesting-rpt-July6-eng.pdf
instead.] There you have an independent investigation report and from there you
can go to other websites, like www.clearwisdom.net.
But you said that the
BBC has been investigating and the Canadian report was made, so somebody must
be waking up about this?
Yeah, you can go to the BBC website, I am sure
they have done lot of documentaries on these kind of things. There hasn't
been a lot from the American stations.
Why do you think that is?
have no idea
Just decided to stay out of the fray.
was another incident during a welcoming ceremony, for Chinese president, there
was a lady doctor. She yelled out to the American president to tell the Chinese
to stop killing people, then she was subsequently charged, but the charge was
conditionally dropped by the American government.
What is the actual process
to get the organs from a person?
As I said, they outlaw them, so they
actually hunt them, pick them up from their house and put them in jail.
Original article date: 26/Aug/2006